How to Find a New and Meaningful Way to Do Business

Joey Giangola: Precious Norman-Walton, how you doing today?

Precious Norman: I'm well. How about yourself?

Joey Giangola: Precious. I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Maybe not as good as you, but we'll find out. I have to know this before we go anywhere, and it's really a simple question. But have you ever broken what you had consider to be maybe a meaningless system? Like you found a loophole on something that you said, "Ah, I think I can get after this" and it just meant nothing, but you had fun kind of threading that needle.

Precious Norman...: Yes, absolutely. So I'm a huge fan of hacks. My husband absolutely hates it. I love watching TikTok and different things and figuring out how I can better improve. I'm one of these people that tries to beat my time on the GPS all the time. And so I think that systems are meant to be challenged and that's the way necessity is the mother of invention. So absolutely, if you're not moving forward, you're falling behind. So I'm a little bit of a rebel in that sense.

Joey Giangola: I like that Precious. For me, it was something really simple. I was back, this is going to date me a little bit, but I can't pinpoint the year exactly, but it was Blockbuster, so there you, you know sort of what we're dealing with. And it was something with a promotional membership where if you rented something for 99 cents, you got two or three videos free. And whatever the loophole was, you could return it and not have to give back the other ones. So I just kept walking in and out of the door, just renting. Me and my friends ended up one summer afternoon between high school, just with a stack of movies to watch.

Precious Norman...: That's fantastic.

Joey Giangola: And again, I don't know why I take enjoyment in that, but it was a fun little thing to experiment with. Nobody stopped me either. So I want to move this over to the world of insurance. And being somebody that has seen it from a lot of different angles and even sort of instructed on what to do and what not to do, is there a system that maybe is a little meaningless that we sort of kind of find ourselves just repeating for no reason that we maybe should rethink and get out of? Is there something that stands out to you that we should just maybe sort of break away from?

Precious Norman...: Yeah, so it's really interesting because we're seeing now, especially accelerated by the pandemic, that certain things that were already underway, on the way, have been pushed to the forefront. Remote work for example, is an excellent example of that. So right now I am definitely team work from home. This push to return to the office and kind of the old school way of just insisting that you have to be in proximity to a person for them to perform, I think is really antiquated. So if I had to pick one thing right now, and especially in our industry, so I'm going to go step further. Not only in my team work from home, depending on your capacity and your role, I'm also a fan of asynchronous working.

Precious Norman...: So if you are an underwriting assistant, if you are someone who's not customer facing, I don't like the idea of all of us being forced into this 8:00 to 5:00, because that's when our office hours used to be. If I'm task driven, as long as I get it done within that business day or whatever the timeframes are, if you're a night owl and you prefer to do that after the kids go to sleep, I don't see any reason why we have to continue to hold these standards when our customers don't really expect that anymore.

Precious Norman...: We see now that with the customer experience, that gone are the days where people are making appointments, sitting across oak desks and signing applications in person. Most of the time it's DocuSign. It's a link. The new customer now, they're accustomed to quote, buying self-service. And so standing by to answer the phone between 8:00 to 5:00, I think is a model that we're seeing sun setting and probably well overdue for that.

Joey Giangola: Well, Precious, those are two big topics right out of the gate. And I have to say two things. One, I always thought if you had to worry about your people working, did you have the right people in the first place? That was sort of always the one thing that stuck with me. And then two is, if you think about the people that we serve, us operating between the hours of 9:00 to 5:00 is kind of weird to begin with, because everybody else is at work and we're supposed to be [inaudible]. So it never really made sense. Do you think that, I mean, how far should we push both of those things in your idea? And what do you say to somebody that has really up until the last couple years experienced a traditional 9:00 to 5:00 in the office, seeing physical human beings all the time?

Precious Norman...: So it's really an interesting dynamic because I think a lot of what I refer to as kind of the legacy agency principles, remember a day and time where their book was built over a round of golf, a meeting at the local chamber of commerce, and that sort of thing, back when mailing worked. There's again, all these different marketing strategies that were the norm. And so a lot of our, it's kind of like what comes first, the chicken and the egg, custom tradition, just acceptable practice, whatever the case may be, was really built around that.

Precious Norman...: But again, the big hot button topic right now is really twofold. I mean, on one hand, again, that consumer experience. What does the customer really want? I tend to operate in a mode of turnaround times versus calendar days, because if you send something to me at 2:00 AM and I can crank it back out and get it back to you before, depending on what the transaction is, is it a 24 hour turnaround time expectation or whatever the case is, because there's a good possibility that if I'm holding all of my productivity between 8:00 to 5:00, and like I said, my customer is unavailable because they're at work, doing what they need to do, then they're going to respond to me after hours anyway, rinse and repeat. And so we've got to get out of that mindset.

Precious Norman...: And also, with a lot of our excess and surplus markets, our underwriters are in London. Lloyd's is in London. So end of business is all, it is relative because if I don't get something out the door, by the time I log in, they're getting ready to close shop. And so we're in a global economy. And so I think it's kind of, again, it's time to set expectations. I'm not saying that you avoid customers during, when they're used to reaching out to you. But then I also think that there's a lot of opportunity to expand various ways that a customer can engage, whether it be a self-service portal, the ability to upload documents, the ability to initiate transactions online somewhere, so that there's still a time stamp. So we're accountable, but again, does it have to be from 8:00 to 5:00? So that's one of those notions that's being challenged.

Precious Norman...: And as you alluded to on the employment side, I think this pandemic has really brought to light. This is the first time we've seen it in the market now where it's really, it is a candidate's market. Right? So we have a talent shortage, especially in the insurance industry where we have this talent vacuum that we knew was coming, just by nature of the baby boomer generation, beginning to retire. But that acceleration piece. So we're having to pick up the pace and get on board. It's overtime.

Joey Giangola: Yeah. And so much of that like you said, being able to shift your business to accommodate different work times, different strategies. But that also comes with maybe a different skill set to work in a way that doesn't require you to walk into the chamber of commerce or whatever it is to have that physical availability. What have you seen from agents and agency owners that, what are they doing to be able to successfully operate when again, they can't rely on walking through a door to see somebody?

Precious Norman...: Absolutely. So I'm seeing a lot of different trends, everything from explainer videos, which are really helpful. So if you're walking someone through a process that in the past may have been sharing pieces of paper across the desk, being able to record that and send that. Not just so that person still has that again, that instruction and that direction, but then also if they have to share it with another decision maker, they can simply forward it along. And you're not playing that awkward telephone game where I relay it to you, you relay it to them. And by the time we're two or three layers deep, it's been completely misconstrued.

Precious Norman...: And also just video conferencing. I found that in the middle of the pandemic, particularly for social distancing purposes we weren't getting in our cars, driving across town, wearing this suffocating mask, just to do a transaction that for the most part, it could be handled by a telephone call or by having an appointment. So I'm a big fan of that. I live by my calendar and it's really just a matter of mutual respect. And so what I have done effectively in the past is set an appointment, share whatever documents ahead of time, ask them to review it prior to sitting down. So that way we can just cut to the meaningful part of the meeting. And it's a time saver in addition to being convenient.

Precious Norman...: And then also for the most part, I think when people are on conference calls or one-on-one video calls, that you have their undivided attention for that moment. And so you're not competing with someone at the door or other fires that are coming up. So being fully present and engaged, we can still give that personal touch without being face to face.

Joey Giangola: Yeah. And there's so much, I guess, maybe over or underestimating, I'm not sure which one, in terms of people's ability to consume insurance information and their sort of tolerance for it. And having a point of record, I guess that's replayable, that's easy to sort of go back to, makes it a lot easier. And I think the other thing you mentioned before was the idea of self-service portals allowing, empowering the customer to have some more responsibility in the process, but there at the same time comes a fear of, we'll say loss of value, right, of adding value to that relationship. What are your thoughts on, on that? And how can agents come to grips with the fact that maybe there's more value to be added elsewhere?

Precious Norman...: So I really think that in the renewal cycle, specifically in the commercial space, that for the most part, we're very passive, we're not proactive. And so the customer initiates endorsements, cancellations, payment inquiries, and we really rely on them to come to us to, again, kick off these processes. So some of the things that I've heard in the industry that we're starting to get better at is leveraging touchpoints to harvest data throughout the year, so that the end of the year, we have a better picture of what's going on.

Precious Norman...: So self-servicing, I'm not a big advocate of just allowing people to go in and make all sort of changes, because sometimes they don't appreciate the repercussions. So if I double my deductible just to save $10, is that really something I'm going to feel great about during the storm season? But on the other side, I think that self-service portals are huge when it comes to just access to your documents. So if I need another ID card, if I need another copy of a certificate of insurance that has gone out, and I'm able just to go into some sort of document repository and access my own stuff, then that may be something that is of value, instead of waiting to talk to somebody for them to email it to me. And then I'm holding the phone, waiting for them to email it. So historical things, access to pass things, billing statements, things like that. I think customer access is what they're looking for. But I don't want to commoditize what we do to where people devalue the benefit of having a consultation.

Precious Norman...: And so in the insure tech space, which is what I've been doing here for the past number of years, what we've seen is a combination of the two. And so that could be effectively leveraged by chat, not necessarily bots that are pre-programmed, but the ability if a customer stalls within the site, that there's a popup, "Hey, would you like to now engage with someone?" We've seen where certain transactions again, puts it on your calendar. So let's say your customer overnight request roadside assistance. You still get some sort of notification so that you can follow up with them and be like, "Hey, I saw that this happened, I just wanted to touch base with you and let's talk about what's going on." So allowing the machine to help efficiencies, frees us up to do what we do best, which is really the relationship part.

Joey Giangola: So I have to ask this question. You said using touchpoints for data harvesting. Right? Is there data points that are more valuable that agents should sort of prioritize in those moments that they may be overlooking at this point?

Precious Norman...: So I think about even in other industries, if I log on for example, to purchase something online and it populates, and it has all the past shipping addresses and it says, "Hey, is this still your address?" I'm like, "Oh no, I moved from that place a long time ago." And I can clean up data. I may be logging in to make a purchasing transaction, but they're also exchanging that for more relevant info. So if I enter in a new card, is that significant of a life change that's happened? Perhaps. If I'm requesting ... Again, when we look at the changes and then we take that opportunity, because people are most motivated to give you the info when they're doing a transaction.

Precious Norman...: Imagine a scenario where the system they're going in to access something and it says, "Hey, real quick, can you just confirm how many employees do you have right here?" So like a snapshot in time, so we're not completely relying on an audit that's going to be done six months from now. If we see that there's a huge uptick, thank you very much. We'll reach out if we have any further questions. So trading info, and doing it in a way where it's not going to be cumbersome. But imagine if you think about what your renewal application was and if your customer is actively engaging on your site, you may have 10 renewal questions and very casually have collected about 70% of that over the year, so that when it is time for renewal, perhaps they just get an email invite to go online and confirm that the data we have is correct.

Precious Norman...: So there are ways where we can make it more than just to set it and forget it one time of the year, we're trying to get them in the office to do a review, which from the customer perspective feels like a sales pitch.

Joey Giangola: So you'd mentioned sort of the lack of proactiveness during sort of the policy life cycle. Right? And the combination of using technology to sort of ease that communication process. What is a good, healthy balance mix? How can agents leverage that stuff to make that proactiveness a little easier throughout the year? What kind of blend have you seen be most successful?

Precious Norman...: I really am a big fan of integrating a social media campaign. So there's all sorts of things that we do. I think oftentimes, especially in the insurance space, we forget that social media is intended to be interactive, and not just a place where it's just a solicitation. If we wanted a popup ad or a commercial, we know where to find those. But I've seen successful agents, for example, have an opinion poll, when what they're looking for is, again, engagement, especially on platforms where you can look at the statistics. How many people looked at this post? How many people reacted to this post? And setting that expectation right out of the gate, kind of onboarding your customer and letting them know, welcome. We've got this transaction taken care of. Our goal is to make sure that you're taken care of, and it's not a set it and forget it. Please follow us online. Hashtags to follow, tag us in a photo.

Precious Norman...: It doesn't always have to be this really stuffy, intimidating way that we stay in touch. And so if you have that open door, that flow and that expectation that we want to engage, then it's not going to come across really artificial when we do. So yeah, social media is one of those underutilized tools that the majority of our customers, especially the younger generations they're already there. And so the algorithms, and again, that's down a rabbit hole that I don't specialize in, but yeah, I think that's again, it's a free tool for the most part that's probably underutilized in insurance.

Joey Giangola: So you said something that I definitely, it really hits home with me. And that's I think, the mind set shift to really focus on adding value and changing the message point to like you said, just being a broadcast commercial. Right? So do you have any advice on how you sort of go through that, we'll say detoxification of just ... Because I mean, it's exciting. You just want to say like, "We've got this thing." But really slowing down and really boiling it down to, well, what is the root message of this? How do I connect and how do I relate? Any suggestions, advice for sort of like a self-check and balance system before? Because again, I think agents are using social media, but I think there is like you said, that disconnect between making it relatable and connecting with the end client.

Precious Norman...: Absolutely. And I think really, it boils down to reminding ourselves that, especially in the insurance world, that customers don't buy products, they buy solutions. And so if you can paint a picture, and if you can set up a scenario where it resonates with them, that they relate to it. And they realize that, hey, I have a need because there's nothing more impactful than when you can get a customer to come around to the point where they, you have that buy-in. It's not just me diagnosing to you that you have this illness and I'm prescribing this medicine. If you don't have any of the symptoms, you're going to be hesitant to purchase the cure.

Precious Norman...: And so when we have these conversations and we allow them to be discovery conversations where our prospects, our insureds engaged with us, then you're setting it up for that aha moment. And so if I see an aha moment, and it might be something as innocent, or casual as a current event. Say, "Hey, this is this really bad accident that's happened. Let's kind of touch base just to make sure if that situation played out in your household, in your business. Where do you stand?" So it doesn't always feel like, "Hey, come ask me today about a quote on X, Y, Z." Instead, you're painting a picture. So when they look at that and they're like, "Geez, you know what? I didn't think about that. That could be my house. That could be my car. Those could be my kids." And now they're coming to you because you've touched off something, and they're ready to have that conversation.

Precious Norman...: So if we think more about the human aspect of it's not always about saving money, it's more about ... Of course we understand this industry, what we sell is peace of mind. And so if you can paint a scenario and it triggers a pain point, and then [inaudible] the solution to give them peace of mind, that's a bind man, all day.

Joey Giangola: All right Precious, I've got three more questions for you. The first one is really simply, what's one thing you hope, you never forget?

Precious Norman...: One thing I hope I never forget is my reason for getting into the industry, which was to be a resource. So sometimes we get so caught up in the minutia, the reports, the commissions, the chargebacks, the underwriting reports that it starts to feel like, again, paperwork. But behind every deck page, every policy, there are our people that you may never encounter personally, that are relying on you to get it right. And I think that's at the core of what we all do. And we need to keep that top of mind.

Joey Giangola: All right. Now, on the other side of that, what's one thing you still have yet to learn?

Precious Norman...: One thing I still have yet to learn is that at the end of the day, the decision is not mine to make. I can make a compelling case. I can spell it out for them. I could be saving them the money, but if they don't have that buy-in, then they won't move forward. Especially early in career. I was really bullheaded about that. I'm like, "This is clearly the best option. You said you wanted these three things. I'm giving you five things. Give me the credit card. Right? Let's do this. Why are you hesitating?" And I didn't respond to that rejection. I kind of wrote it off as them being illogical. But now, as I've been in the industry for going on, oh gosh, 18 years, I'm starting to remember that there's so many things that I'm not privy to, even if I've thoroughly underwritten an account. And there may be other issues why they hesitate.

Precious Norman...: And so my job is not to be a hard closer, but to take that feedback and understand how I can apply that to be again, more compassionate. So that's especially difficult when you hunt what you eat. And we live by our sales and our commissions, and you want to push them over the line. But what we can't afford is buyer's remorse. It doesn't be no good for someone to buy something today and they cancel it tomorrow, just because they didn't know how to say no. So I have to learn to accept the nos. Every no doesn't require rebuttal.

Joey Giangola: All right, Precious, last question to you. If I were to hand you your magic wand of sorts to reshape change, alter, speed up, really any part of insurance, what's that thing? Where is it going? And what's it doing?

Precious Norman...: So I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I am a huge diversity, equity and inclusion advocate. And so if there was one thing about our industry that I can just magically fix overnight, it would really be leveling the playing field and allowing those who are entering our industry a fair shot at really excelling. What we see today is that a lot of the entry level roles, some of the lower skilled roles may be filled with a certain demographic. But then as you go through the ranks and you look at middle leadership, upper leadership, it's just not reflective of the workforce.

Precious Norman...: And so insurance is an industry where we have a transaction. We do have a commodity, but it has impacts into society as a whole. And so it's going to take an army of insurance professionals that reflect the communities that we service, in order to get these communities to fully leverage and take advantage and engage in what it is that we're offering. And so, yeah, that would be my kind of unicorn, pie in the sky wish, if I had the ability to change it overnight. We're still chipping away at it. It might not be overnight. I think we'll get there, hopefully in my career time, my working time. I don't have very many years left, but we're making strides, because it starts with awareness. So I think awareness is starting to happen and the rest of the things are falling into place, so I'm hopeful.

Joey Giangola: Precious, this has been fantastic. I'm going to leave it right there.

Precious Norman...: Awesome.