If you take your time with the right relationships, you could find more business falling in line than you expect.

That's what happens when you go after the biggest fish you can find and actually reel them in.

Now you've instantly created confidence and credibility for other movers and shakers in your targeted niche.

Mohamad Momin, Agency Owner of Starr Insurance, talks about how he finds his way to the top of every prospect's mountain.

Full Episode Transcript

Joey Giangola: Mr. Mohammad Momin. How you doing today, sir?

Mohamad Momin: Doing all right, man. How are you?

Joey Giangola: I'm doing all right. I am doing all right. I kind of wanted to know this before we jump into anything too specific and serious. Did you ever have something that you saw and the first time you saw it, you're like, "Oh, that's going to be successful," or "That's something that's going to make a difference." Is there anything that ever stood out to you in that regard?

Mohamad Momin: Man, could've, should've, would've. Not really, that comes to mind. I do a lot of day trading stuff. So yeah, in that sense, a lot of things come to mind, but out of the ordinary, no, not really.

Joey Giangola: It sounds like there might have been one stock that got away. Is there one that [crosstalk]

Mohamad Momin: There's always that one stock that got away. You know.

Joey Giangola: Fair enough. For me... I don't know if I want to admit this publicly, but I feel like the first time I heard the first song by Avril Lavigne, I was 15 and I saw the video come on MTV. I think it was It's Complicated was the song. I was like, "That's going to be big." And I really didn't know why, and I didn't say it to anybody, but my 15-year-old self, and it ended up being a pretty big song. So I guess, I missed my calling as an A&R guy. But yeah, it's interesting.

I think I want to kind of move that over to insurance. And when you have... I think we have maybe the reverse effect of that in the industry, where we look to a lot of stuff and we think it's going to be the next big thing. And we're often chasing that quite a bit, and we spend a lot of time on it, but yet, at the end of the day, it feels like there's a lot of stuff that works. Traditional stuff, like just actually doing the things. Is there something that you maybe have gone down a rabbit hole too far and found yourself like, "Boy, maybe I put too much stock in this one thing and I should have done this instead."

Mohamad Momin: I think it's always the technology thing for me. I have that, what do they call that issue, where you see a... Shiny object syndrome. That's what I call it.

Joey Giangola: Yes. Yeah.

Mohamad Momin: So, I do have that where I have a bad habit of building and touching and creating things if I get the opportunity, instead of focusing on the insurance part. So, I kind of sometime go down that rabbit hole, instead of outsourcing it or buying a platform that kind of does everything, maybe 80% of the time. Instead of trying to find that one perfect one and just going after it, if it requires hours and hours and hours of putting time into it, I'll do it. But then, I have that issue, where I'll kind of go down that rabbit hole where I shouldn't have, and it just kind of goes like, "What the heck am I doing?" A week into it, I was like, "Maybe I should have gone that way."

Joey Giangola: Is there any specific rabbit hole that you found more treacherous than another?

Mohamad Momin: In the insurance industry, I think technology. When it comes to technology, I think AMS was the biggest rabbit holes. AMS and CRMs, especially if you're struggling or starting off. There's always that cost versus value, where you have to kind of figure out where you need to be. And sometimes you realize... I've done this in the past where I was like, "Man, you know what? I should have just gone with the more expensive option that came with these bells and whistles instead of trying to piecemeal this together." So, I think AMS is one of the main big factors I think I've spent a lot of time into and learned later on. It's like, "Ah, maybe it was not worth it."

Joey Giangola: Yeah, just doing it right the first time. There's always something for that, you know.

Mohamad Momin: Yes. Yes.

Joey Giangola: Well, I want to go over to the insurance side. Like you said, you sometimes maybe find it easier to get distracted and focus on the technology piece. Is there something going back to, maybe even when you're just getting started, where you saw that sort of success and you're like, "Oh, this is something I need to remember to do," that sort of... When it finally clicked for you, as you were getting going in the industry.

Mohamad Momin: So I guess all that kind of goes back to your target audiences, where you want to be, what your niche is. In my niche, I find community service or getting involved is much more easier. My approach has always been go after the big whale first and everybody else will follow. It's like the prison mentality, you know? So if there's a target audience or target market, I'm going after I say, "Okay, who's the biggest fish in that pond?" And I try to go after that. That is the long approach. It does take time, does take energy. But I think when it comes to commercial, people don't buy based on your products, but it's based on relationship. Who you go play golf with, who you interact with. I tend to take the long approach from that perspective. If I'm going after a market, I try to see who that person is. Where are they involved? And indirectly going to that room and start rubbing shoulders with different people and then get introductions from that way. So it is the long approach versus going directly and going after their sales. You know what I mean? So I try and make them friends before approaching them for service.

Joey Giangola: You have my interest. this is fascinating. So taking the winding road, if you will. How do you go about identifying... Like you said, sometimes they're pretty obvious, but how do you go about identifying that top dog in that niche?

Mohamad Momin: Yeah. I think it kind of goes back to your niche again. So if your niche is in IT, then you have the idea of which companies and which CEOs are the decision makers you need to go after. So I think if you have a niche, then after you figured that niche out, when you start researching, you figure out the bigger companies, the bigger players, then it kind of comes down back to who you need to go after. But I think the hardest part is to figure out your niche.

Joey Giangola: I was going to say, what areas do you like to play in that? Have you found certain niches more viable than others for your agency?

Mohamad Momin: For my agency, it's primarily convenience stores. So C stores, retail shopping centers, and stuff like that. Obviously within my segment of people I go after, I figured out just by talking to one or two... Give you an example. If there's a C store I see that's coming up, and I start looking into it... And this has happened kind of like, "Wait." I use the corporate Wiki, there's another website I use. So you kind of figure out who owns this property, who owns this business? And you find out, "Oh, this person owns this business." And then you figure out, "Oh, wait, he's also involved in this business." And you kind of figure out who the key players are from that, almost like the spider web of corporations.

There's a website we use called Corporate Wiki, where if you put in the corporation's name it tells you the owners or partners, and then it tells you who that partners is involved with and which corporation he has. And then you kind of figure out the path, the pattern... Who's a main player in this? Who's connected with all of these different corporations? So you kind of go after that person. And once you have that person, then everybody else kind of follows.

Joey Giangola: Interesting. So that's quite the little web you're weaving there as you, like you said, try to unfold this whole thing. So convenience stores, retail shops are now... Usually, like you said, there's a pretty decent structure in place there. So you want to go after the businesses in the different shopping centers and things-

Mohamad Momin: Right.

Joey Giangola: ... but then you also want to get after the person that actually owns the building, and there might be another level or two above that. You find that getting to the top first is the easiest way for them to have that trickle down effect?

Mohamad Momin: I think it's easier to go that way. It becomes more focused then. Say you take a retail shopping center and they have 10 stores. Well, if you take 10 businesses, you go after each 10 different owners and try to go to the top. It's harder, versus if you're already going after the top, and then you kind of work your way down. Then it's much easier. I always like to throw out names in terms of when I'm acquiring a new business. So I'll say, "Oh, wait, if I could write Joe Schmo retail shopping center, or if I could write this huge complex, and I'm sure I can help you out." So if Joey knows Jason, and if I got Joey taken care of, then when I'm approaching Jason, say, "Hey, Jason. Yeah. We have someone in common. Joey. I take care of all of this, this, this, this with Joey." Then there's connection, you know? And if they both are kind of in the same arena in terms of... We use a prison mentality again. If they're the two top dogs in the prison, then it's like, "Oh, wait. If he can take care of this guy, I'm sure he could take care of my needs." You know? So it's kind of like that. It works for me. I find it beneficial, but like I said, it is the long approach. And a lot of people don't understand that.

Joey Giangola: Well, so you mentioned the long approach. And I guess we got to do this, right? So patience is the thing that comes with what you're talking about here. What sort of expectations would you want to set for somebody that might want to dabble in this longer tail play for that relationship? You know, guys just starting out, I would imagine they might be a little more impatient to wait that long. What kind of runway do you give yourself take to get in that door?

Mohamad Momin: If someone's starting off it's really hard. And the reason I say that it's really hard is because you're stuck between, "Hey, I need money now because I'm starving," versus, "Hey, what is the long approach?" I've heard a lot of agents say in the past, like, "Hey, when I first started, I was just going after any customer. Hey, you got a pulse? All right, let's do business." And it does make sense and it's okay to do that initially, but you have to figure out your longterm 10 year, 20 year plan as well. So if your approach is that, and you're going to continue to run with that, the problem you come across, maybe five, 10 years down the road, is what is my niche? I don't know. Because you didn't control your niche. You didn't control your client base. You didn't decide who your client's going to be, what niche you're going to go after. Your clients did, because you are taking everybody with a pulse. Then eventually you will find yourself in a market or segment that you may or may not like.

It's good to initially say, "Okay you know what, what do I want to do 10 years from now? Where do I want to be? What type of agency do I want to be?" Once you've figured that out, you could keep that in your back of your mind. As you kind of go through this craziness of, "Hey, I'll take the first customer that walks in." And eventually you'll say, "Okay, you know what? I got enough. Now I could be a little bit more pickier with my clients that I bring on." But then you have to keep that back in your mind. Like, "Hey, where do I want to be in 10 years?" And I think a lot of agents who start off, they forget that. They see the dollar bills and they just keep going after it. And then 10 years down the road, they have an agency they're not really... "I'm not too happy with, or that's not the niche I want to be in," or whatever the case may be.

Joey Giangola: I feel like there might be a good story here. Was there a moment where it clicked for you in terms of, kind of stumbling onto this niche that you currently like to go after, and that hierarchy of, again, starting at the convenience store level to the person owning the building, to the top of the corporation. Was there a moment where that all clicked for you? Did it the heavens part, just some angels [crosstalk] singing. Say, "Hey, Mohamad, here you go, man."

Mohamad Momin: Yes, there has been moments like that. People who know me, they know where I started off. I started off as a non-standard agency. And a non-standard was a bucket shop, autos only, low-income, month-to-month policies. That's where I started off. It was good. There's a lot of gravy, at least in Texas. There's a lot of agency fees you could charge. So you had all this cash coming in that kind of helped me, got established. Eventually I realized that month-to-month customer is not really where I want to be. I have friends who are in that business and they are super successful. All they do is run around their Mercedes with flip-flops, t-shirt, and shorts. Half their employees don't know who they are, and they prefer to keep it that way. That's the lifestyle they chose.

I wanted to go after a whole different market. Eventually I got tired of that month-to-month stuff. I said, "Look, I want to build relationships. I want to have an agency that I can give to my kids that has a potential to grow 20 years from now. It will still be around." I just didn't see that in these small bucket shops where they will turn into a huge, massive agency that you give to your grandkids. That's when I started getting into the commercial side and when I started getting into it, and I realized that, "Whoa, this is much nicer. I have to build a relationship, but once the relationship is done, then it's set. That customer's there with me for 10 years or plus." Versus where this other side of the business is almost like revolving doors. 10 customers come in, you hope to keep nine or eight for a year or two while the other leave. And then 10 more come in. It was too... I don't know. It was just not my style.

Joey Giangola: If you had to look back and there was one thing that you could do differently, or maybe not, is there something that... Is there that crossroads where you were at, maybe at that point? Where if you had a piece of information that you could give back to that person that is just starting out, is there one thing that you think would make an even bigger difference than where you are today?

Mohamad Momin: Figuring out what the hell you want to do initially makes a huge difference. Recently, I just sold that non-standard agency. And that was a huge step for me because that's something I've been building for last 18 years. All this time I was in a... I always tell people, I felt like I'm going down the river with one feet in the non-standard agency and one feet in the preferred agency. And two different boats have two different target audiences, two different processes, two different procedures, two different employees you need to hire, two different mindsets. The non-standard is heavily not service-oriented, but more, "Hey, how much service you think I can get out of you as of right now?" I'm not worried about tomorrow if you stay with me, I don't care. I'm going to milk you for what you have now. That's the mentality you need to have, and that's not what I had. So it was almost like my brain was split in half.

What I tell anybody else coming in is to figure out where you want to be. I mean, which agency you really want to have. And it kind of goes back to your personality, to be really honest with you. If you're a cash money driven only, that's all that wakes you up in the middle of the night, say, "Hey, I want to wake up in the morning and I'll make XYZ amount of money. I don't care how it happens. I want to make XYZ amount of money." If that's what you're driven by, hey, that's your thing. That's not a problem. But if that's what you go after, then maybe the non-standard market is where you want to be. But if you're saying, "Hey, you know what? I want to make a difference. I want to protect. I want to have a relationship. I want to have this client that I go play golf with on Sundays or whatever." If that's the mentality you have, and that's the relationship you want to go after, then focus on that.

But that is something that I figured at a pivot point that I had my 20-almost years where I figured I was... I had the mentality. I could do both. And you can't really do both. You have to pick a side eventually. It took me too long to figure that out. If I had figured that out before, I would have made more money now. If I'd have stayed with the non-standard side, not deferred, then you know what? I would've made a lot more money because my focus was not distracted.

Joey Giangola: All right, Mohamad, I've got three more questions for you, sir. And the first one is, very simply, what's one thing you hope you never forget?

Mohamad Momin: One thing that I'd hope I never forget? Man, I wish you had emailed these questions.

Joey Giangola: That's fine. That's fine.

Mohamad Momin: Just messing with you. [crosstalk] One thing that I wish I would never forget. I learned this the hard way. When I first got into having my own agency or being an entrepreneur, I was wet behind the ears in the essence where I trusted people. If you told me, "Hey, Mohamad, this is the deal." I'd say, "Okay, this is the deal." We shake hands on it and move on. And I learned the hard way when I bought an agency when I first got started, that that's not the case. I got hosed when I first got started. I bought into an agency when I... It was about 20 years ago when I first got in. And as soon as I bought it, the whole book just disappeared. And it was a franchise operation. Franchise went belly up. It was one of those things where I was wet behind the ears. I trusted people and I never verified data. Now, it's that... What is that saying? "Trust, then verify?" Now I do that quite often.

That's one life lesson I've learned by getting into the businesses. "Hey, you know what? I trust you. That's why we're in talking. If I didn't trust you, we wouldn't be talking. But now after you give me all this information, I'm going to go ahead and do my own study and verify this information." And a lot of people don't like that. I had a business partner that I was looking at getting into business partner with him. He did not appreciate that mentality. When we first met, I said, "Okay, great. Now let me go verify this. Show me this, show me this, show me this." He said, "What, you don't trust me?" I said, "No, no, no, no. It's not trusting. I trust you. That's why we were talking. If I didn't trust you, we wouldn't be talking. But I need to verify this information." A lot of people don't like that, but I think that's a life lesson I've learned that I would never forget.

Joey Giangola: All right. On the other side of that, what's one thing you still have yet to learn then?

Mohamad Momin: What you don't know, you don't know, right? I don't know. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot to learn. What drives me insane is when I start talking to all these different agencies from different backgrounds is what I don't know. To be really honest with you, I first... Out of a typical Texas association event I went to was Jason [Cass's] where I got introduced to all these different agents from all these different walks of life, from all these different part of the US. I came to realize like, "Oh crap, I don't know nothing." Before, I was like, "Oh shit, I know this. I know this." But then looking at how people do different type of agencies, how they run. It's really cool to see how agency in New York is ran totally different than agency in Florida. Versus in California or in Washington, how they do it, what they do, it's just too much information. What I don't know, I still don't know. But my goal is to pick people's brains every time I meet. I always go in with a learning mentality not ever a, "Oh, I know all of this," because I don't think I know anything. That's why whenever people ask me, "Hey, you want to do a podcast?" Like, "Sure, but I don't know nothing." But what I don't know, I don't know. I think I'm still learning.

Joey Giangola: All right, Mohamad. Last question to you, sir, if I were to hand you a magic wand of sorts to reshape, change, alter, really any part of insurance, what is that thing, where is it going, and what's it doing?

Mohamad Momin: I would give clients more control of their data. Biggest issue I have being in the commercial side, right? Biggest issue I have is collecting sales information, collecting loss runs, and collecting all this info that I need to get a proper quote. Again, I'm going to just go back to the commercial and what I know, if I had a magic wand, I would create a way, just like a credit score you have, where you could go and pull up a report and see what you have, what you don't have, credit-card wise. I would create something like that for consumers where a business owner can go in, see all his corporation, make sure all the data is correct, updated. And when he wants a quote, he says, "Hey, Joey, here's a temporary access, whatever. Everything's there. Give me a quote." Everything I need is right there.

This way, the data that comes into all these different agencies is the same. That would be my magic wand. I'll make it seamless to get a commercial quote, where right now, commercial quoting is where the typewriter used to be. It goes based on, Joey has a partner. Partner tells this other agent different information. Joey tells me different information, then we get two different quotes with two different coverages, two different pricings, you know? That kind of becomes crazy at times. So I would find a magic wand, I'll create a system that would do that and be done with it.

Joey Giangola: Mohamad, this has been fantastic. I'm going to leave you right there, sir.

Mohamad Momin: All right.